Slowing Down: Making Intimacy Accessible for All

This is a partial transcript of a conversation between me and Rahi Chun, a man of many merits and the host of the Organic Sexuality podcast. If listening is accessible to you, you can find the podcast wherever you normally listen. The link for the full podcast transcript, plus the many resources that support the content discussed, can be found at the bottom of the blog here. Intimacy means all things ya’ll, so whatever your current life situation, be welcomed to this conversation.

“Welcome to Organic Sexuality, where we explore the restoration of pleasure, the reclamation of sexual sovereignty, and the realization of our embodied sexual nature. An invitation to honor the pleasures of your body by embodying the pleasures of your nature. I'm your host Rahi Chun.

I'm a certified somatic sex educator, sexological bodyworker, and creator of Somatic Sexual Wholeness. Today I am thrilled to invite Emily Royce. Our exploration of embodiment and the sexual and sensual pleasures for differently abled bodies invites us to question how, as a society, we've created these standards and norms about sexuality and embodied pleasure, when every body is so unique and different.

And as practitioners, we explore how the same principles apply for any body of attuning for what is true and desired, moment by moment, always questioning how can this feel even better. I'm very excited to welcome Emily Royce to the podcast. Emily is also a certified somatic sex educator, a sexological bodyworker, as well as a scar tissue remediation and management practitioner, who is currently the president of our association of certified sexological bodyworkers, and she has been past president or past co-president for several years now.

But there's a number of things that we want to get into. Emily specializes in working with folks who have chronic pain and or disability, or disorders that directly affect their sexuality. She helps those on the outskirts of mainstream sexuality discover the hidden pleasures in their bodies and the language around asking for what they need and want and receiving it.

Emily, thanks so much for joining us today. So happy to be here. Yeah, excited to have this conversation.

Awesome. Me too. Me too.

So I, you know, like oftentimes when I have guests on the podcast, I feel like a natural jumping off point is inquiring about like how your life experiences shaped or influenced your path to holding space as a sexological bodyworker with the audience that you do. And what has been really instrumental in your personal journey of your own sexual embodiment? Okay. Well, you know, the focal point of my work comes from, I developed chronic pain as a child, probably about six, if I'm like trying to track it where it originated.

And then just, you know, as this stuff does, it just compounds. But it's a lot of it is, it wasn't so much the pain and other things that developed. It's the loaded stuff around it, not trying to be a burden, trying to be, I'm one of seven children.

Oh, wow. Yeah, not be too much, too extra, too this, too that. And the kind of holding and gripping and things we do around what we're experiencing.

So that led into the path. I mean, it was all that holding and gripping. And I had this, you know, kind of pivotal point.

I must have been, oh, gosh, 34, I think it was, where I decided I was going to go on a dancing journey to be with grief, like finally consent to grieving. I think I was resourced enough, felt supported enough by the universe. I'm like, okay, I can do this thing now.

And not at all imagining that as I consented to grieving, that within that was going to be greater joy than I had ever experienced. And I think that's true once we have this experience of allowing ourselves to feel, to feel it all and not trying to compartmentalize and say, I'll take this, but not that. Like once we get to see, oh, like, yes, of course, there might be more grief, there might be more sadness, there might be more longing.

But there's all the other things to a much richer degree. So my foray into eroticism, like really began there, because that was like a somatic way to enter ecstasy, pleasure, but maybe in a different way. And it was during this dancing journey, I was meditating heavily and I'm a Kundalini Yoga instructor.

So it's like really kind of wild meditations for a long time. And started this tremor that would just kind of carry with me. And that led me to be like, I wonder.

And then I went to Tantra training, like a month long intensive, you know, so it was just, it was letting curiosity lead. It was like, okay, now I'm resourced enough to face the sexuality bit with, you know, the loaded Catholic shame and the sexual dysfunction, in quotes, really problematic sexuality I'd had since I started. You know, so at that point, almost two decades, it was like, okay, now I can face the thing.

So that's what led me to the sexuality world. And then once I had a lot of dysregulating experiences in the Tantra world, not having space holding where they really knew how to be with trauma. That's what led me into sexological body work.

It's like, well, something else has to exist where we get to experience ecstasy, but it's not like, oh, we're all having a good time and it's amazing. Like what happens when it's not? That's what led me into. And then during sexological body work, I got super fascinated with the scar work.

So that's what led me to that further. Wow. That's really fascinating.

So I'm curious at 34, when you made the intentional choice of, I'm kind of curious which came first. Did you choose dancing? And as your body was getting engaged, you came across areas in your body of grief, or was it like the conscious embracing of the grief that led to your body wanting to move and express itself? Or maybe it was like concurrent. Gosh.

Yeah. It might, you know, concurrent sounds about right. Because at that point, at that point I had already been diagnosed with MS. I had already gone through some real difficult years in the beginning of that diagnosis.

I had gotten a divorce related to becoming ill. And then it was like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to do yoga training. I'm going to deeply immerse with spirit.

I'm going to like, I became, you know, this yoga instructor and then I was working in a yoga studio. So it was just around this. It was going to chanting events.

I was like, just really immersed in the realm of possibility. That's what that world is. You know, like when you meditate and you can go to this ecstatic place that might not make sense, that you can't explain that you can't, you know, like try to like create a code for someone else to duplicate, you know, you just having this experience that felt like the first touch point into sexuality and sexuality, you know, because I didn't have a lot of reference points at that, at that time for good, positive, like erotic trance or anything like that.

I think about, there's something to be said, right? About body knowing and remembering, even if we feel like, you know, oh, it's never been good for me. I was able to remember at some point, you know, when I was six, I was precocious. I was mischievous.

I was, you know, I took off all the tutus to my ballet outfits and would swing around the pole in my basement, like stripping, you know, like as a homeschooler, like how did I even know how to do that? It's like some remembrance there, you know, even if it's not like even my lifetime, the body is like, this is freeing, this is fun. This is liberating, you know, until it's not. And when someone else discovers, you know, but that doesn't mean that that impulse wasn't there.

So I think it was just remembering that like maybe at a much, much, much older age by doing other practices, other somatic things that made me receptive to receiving, made me receptive to like remembering like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I have this narrative that I was always a really serious person and things have always been hard. And then you remember a tiny little bit. Wait a second, that's not the whole truth.

I mean, it's possible. Yeah, so it was leaning into the realm of possibility and that maybe I don't know all the things I think I know that opens the door to like, oh wow, this is something I didn't have any context for and here it is happening. But you know what, something that really stands out for me is that like as a child, as a young child, you were dancing in your basement.

And that somatic memory of the joy and the energy of expressing yourself in that way was in your body. And it sounds like it got, I don't know, reawakened or remembered or tapped into at 34 when you chose to dance. And then, you know, as you shared, the trance states that a lot of Kundalini meditations can invite opens up these portals of like different possibilities.

Almost like, yeah, I mean, I would love your input on this, Emily, because, you know, as you know, Kundalini Yoga is very much about angles and like putting your body into different angular positions invoking the breath and the sound. But I feel like Kundalini offers access to, you know, anyone who can really meditate and engage in their breath and sound. How was it for you, you know, having MS, being a teacher? And did you find it limiting? It sounds like it was liberating for you.

It's like both. Like I think because I'm an oppositional person, you know, like when they were like, you have to wear all white. I'm like, I wore every color.

I came to the first class, every possible color combination. But then I had surrendered and then I was fully bought in. And then I was doing two and a half hour practices starting at four a.m. after a cold shower.

And like to just play and not feel like we have to be wedded, embedded in whatever the thing. The thing that really stayed with me in Kundalini Yoga, and this, you know, this is a lineage with abuse. This is a lineage that got all kind of twisted up.

Right. But there's, there are things that are like it works if you just do the technology. And the thing that really stayed with me in that practice was what some teachers would say, which is, and if you can't do the practice like it's prescribed this day, just envision it.

Just imagine it and your neurons are going to fire the same as if it were happening, which is true. It's the same as I was just talking to someone about Joe Dispenza, who, yeah, this is very much like, if you believe it, you can achieve, you know, but just like imagine yourself playing piano and then like, that will still like fire this for your brain as well. Right.

I experienced that. It felt like, oh, I just did this whole set. Even if half the time I was sitting here and I was doing breath work along with it and I had my eyes closed and that really helps work on, you know, ego and ableism in general.

This was probably my first foray into, oh, I'm less than, I can't do the thing. Oh, I must look funny compared to the rest of the class. Oh, this, oh, that.

I mean, it helps in Kundalini Yoga that everyone's eyes are closed and it's not maybe as competitive seeming as some other yoga studios, for example, but it was having to kind of bump up against the edge lovingly a little bit and then like back away from it. And then the other part of Kundalini, which is like seeing what you're capable of, which is a beautiful thing to experience for the self. So at a time where I felt really limited, like I can't do this, I can't do that.

Sure, envision it half the time and then try, like, what if? What if? Sometimes I'd find my arms closed, you know, Sat Kriya for, we did it for over an hour and I kept my arms up the whole time, you know, because it's amazing. It's not that different than like, you know, the somatic sexuality work we do. Like, it's not, it's just every single moment.

What does my body need and want in this moment? Am I capable of keeping them up in this moment? I don't have to think about the next moment. I don't have to think about, and I don't have to push. It's not about, yeah, I want to feel accomplished.

Like, it's about can I, you know, and how do I feel every moment that I keep saying yes? And it's actually a genuine yes and I'm not coming from a place of I have to, or the person next to me still has their arms up, so I also have to. It's just, you know, me, myself and I, spirit. Yeah.

What are we capable of doing? Yes. Yeah. Well, this is really a wonderful segue because I wanted to ask, how you incorporate what's been really instrumental in your journey with your clients.

And it sounds like, you know, I love what you, you know, kind of underscored around like, you know, when you can imagine it, your neurons are firing, you know, because your imagination is so powerful. And just being present with what is and what your body needs moment to moment. Are these, are these principles that you bring to your practice with your clients? And, and, yeah, I guess a broader question would be like, what, what have, what do you, what do you find yourself bringing into the session space for your clients who may have chronic illnesses or physical disabilities that has been really instrumental for your journey of reclaiming your body? Well, it's like, I mean, the thing is with, with all clients, it's kind of like the, the methodology is the same with everyone.

With everyone. Yeah. In a way, you know, because I think we compartmentalize, you know, differently abled bodies, but the technology is not really different.

It's how is your, your body in this moment? Let's do some body focusing. Let's get you connected and in a relationship with your body so that you all can be having a conversation. It's less important about me understanding exactly what to do with you.

Let's figure out where your system is leading you today. The simple invitation of like, what would make this even better? Ends up sometimes taking 20 minutes, 30 minutes, right? People who are not used to being comfortable and not used to taking time and space. So this is a little bit more with differently abled bodies where I do see this with everyone though, that folks, we generally feel like a burden.

We generally feel like we're too much or not enough somehow at the same time. So there's a lot of self apologizing so that that sometimes can take longer with differently abled bodies or differently abled minds. Just just difference.

Because the messaging from greater society of what the norm is the pace that's normal like that you need to be keeping up like that's a little bit stronger and more felt maybe in a somatic way of like always feeling behind or always feeling like your needs are fussy and like you should just accept whatever is good enough. So that can be really instrumental in initial sessions and really every session. When I say that people want to be like, it's fine.

We can go ahead and start with the meditation. Yeah. But would something make this even better? I mean, that prompt is coming.

And then it's like, oh, yeah, you're yes. I do actually need something by my knees. Okay.

Actually, the light is kind of irritating. Yes. We just get closer and closer.

And then what is getting you to feel that in the body of how is it to sense what I need to speak it out to receive it and now be able to like savor and bask in that. I mean, that is like every step of the somatic sexology work that we do, like compiled into one into the precursor to get into a exercise when really like that's kind of as its own exercise. I find.

Yeah. Yeah. That that working with differently abled folks just comes with some more.

There's I think the sensibility for folks who may work with this population is to understand or to gather resources or get exposed to the amount of medicalization that folks who have been through the medical world that really wears on a person in their body and it really separates you from your body intelligence. It's by design. So if you go to many doctors visits and you've had many procedures, surgeries, et cetera, et cetera, you're getting further and further away from your innate knowing of what's best for you because you're constantly being told we establishment know what is best for you.

And it's always another procedure or medication or something else that is not about getting into your your body. It's usually about getting further away. So it's also with most of these populations.

I already move slow and this work moves slow, but I move even slower. For anyone working with these populations to question your it's always good to be untangling your own tenets of white supremacy, specifically urgency or have an idea of like, OK, here's a definitely able person. I'm going to assume that their ideal is to get back to, quote, normal resume that they want to have sexuality that looks like what's going on in the movies.

So really, we don't want to do this with any clients. Again, that's why I'm trying to like generalize pan out. Yes.

Hopefully we bring the same sensibility of slow. Don't presume. Let it be client led.

Let it be client body led. But I think we do need to work on our own stuff around what ableism for sure around what we think is normal or ideal. Right.

Be happening at the same time so that we can celebrate the triumph someone's having that might look really small. That might seem insignificant to us because we're comparing it to what another client was able to get to or we're comparing it to. Oh, I want to get these people to have a really enjoyable sex life.

And then they might have one micro movement that means self pleasure, more accessible to them. And that might feel like a victory to really celebrate that. Totally.

You know, savor, pause. I mean, the integration is where most of the plasticity happens anyways. So, yeah, to move slower, basically.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think what you're speaking to, Emily, is so, so, so important. I mean, here I was like preparing for our interview, like wondering, you know, like, you know, what awareness as practitioners, you know, should should consider.

But it's really it's really the fundamentals. You know, it's making sure it's client led, client empowered, attuning to the client's body. You know, no matter, you know, how, how, like where the client's body is on the spectrum of ability.

And because that's when the the body is really reclaiming its own agency. And what I'm hearing is the difference that I hear and, you know, like, is that because, you know, some some folks who go through the the kind of Western medical system have been so disempowered and been told like what proceed like so many procedures are imposed onto them that it had to just really attune to, you know, even more so what it is that is true for the client's body and let that lead. Yeah, exactly.

There has to I mean, the wheel of consent is a beautiful tool for again for everybody and hopefully as a part of all of our practice. This could be really instrumental and empowering for people who've. You know, been so out of consent, a lot of things done to them even, you know, I think it's really important like we probably see I see some big improvements when people see me for session prior to a surgery and after particularly prior to do body practices and listening and something like a body poem of how does the body feel about going into this procedure and reframing it in a way, you know, like this is not my ideal, but I want I want you to hear this body like I am choosing this and what do we need to be on board with this can really feel more like a team approach of going into something.

So when working with folks who've often had things done to them, it might take way more practice, way more time, way more consistent practice with the wheel of consent. Because again, what I find is people do this apologizing burden. I'm taking too long.

It's good enough. I think I get it without like, no, we're really going to stay here. Like what would you want me to do to you? How do you want me to touch your arm? Like if we're just practicing, I was like, I don't know.

Okay, well, let's just stay with you. I don't know until you get a sense and you don't have to have a clear answer. You can just have, I think it might be this thing and then we'll try a little bit and we'll pause and we'll wait.

Was that what you had in mind? Or is it a little bit more? We'll get it just right. Like that can be so big for people to have an experience of like, oh my gosh, like I ran the show in that in this touch experience for once in my life. And then that gives a touch point for the rest.

Then we know like when people are like, how do you teach consent? It's like when you have an embodied experience of like, oh, that felt different. That becomes your compass or your guiding star of like for the next things. And that's how you know when you, when you are in consent and then choice.

It might give you tools to be in more consent and choice for further procedures and things like that too. So yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. Emily, I'm curious, I wanted to ask you the role that healing with pleasure played in your own re-inhabiting or reclaiming of your body's agency and the role that that plays. Because I think, I feel like on your website somewhere, I, you know, saw something about like you sharing about how, you know, it can awaken new neural pathways that have been dormant and kind of the emphasis of healing with pleasure.

And I remember a conversation we had before, you know, you sharing about like, you know, the wonders of having, of having, of discovering orgasm through, you know, touch at your elbow. And so, right. And so, and so I'm, I'm really curious about the role that, that pleasure and client, your body led curiosity and inquiries about your own pleasure led to your own resource and agency and, and the kind of role that that plays in your work with clients.

Okay. So, I mean, it's, it's everything. It's everything.

It really is everything. It is the medicine. Yeah.

And, and far more effective than a lot of other medicines that we're trying to provide ourselves. Sure. And I want to, for people hearing this and especially for differently abled bodies, like when I say pleasure, I don't mean it maybe the way that a lot of people see it when I even say sexual pleasure or sensual pleasure.

It's not like it there's, you know, this incense that's like wafting into my face right now is highly pleasurable. So it's not, it's, it's recognizing that pleasure that we have a resource in our body and, and it was helpful to have my first encounters with guided, like pleasurable based meditations that invited just to find neutral. Cause when I first got into this stuff, every all the pain, everything was so loud.

I wasn't trained enough to even know how to navigate to find places. I certainly couldn't access pleasure and it exacerbated it when other people were signing, get into your pelvis. This, this juicy, enjoyable, you know, like it's not, it's very painful and loud and hot and fiery, you know, like don't tell me what it is.

But as soon as someone put neutral and allowed me and my body to decide, okay, can I find neutral? And then I was able to feel, Oh, neutral is pleasurable. To be able to find a neutral, not loud, painful spot. Right? Like, yeah, that is pleasurable.

And then I can lean into that as a resource and expand on its own instead of trying to, you know, tinker and create or have pleasure look a certain way or emotions. And so that, I mean, for, I think for anybody, you know, like pleasure, pleasure is a resource for bodies that have chronic pain and things of this nature. And I think a lot of us have chronic pain.

So when I say that, I think a lot of folks are hesitant to claim that for themselves. I often hear people be like, Oh, I don't have like a disability. It's just like my knee hurts all the time.

It's like, well, I mean, that's technically disabling. You don't have to use that term. Sure.

The title is loaded. But if you're honest and acknowledge, Oh, this is a disability. It's disabling….”

For the full unedited transcript, see the show notes here: https://somaticsexualwholeness.com/re-inhabiting-presence-pleasure-and-power-for-differently-abled-bodies-with-emily-royce-president-of-the-association-of-certified-sexological-bodyworkers/